SGA Episode Review 3x20 "First Strike"
Feb. 7th, 2007 10:41 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
liresiusWhoo! I love my show still ...
First Strike was up there with Echoes for the m/m character moments and interactions, Echoes being my second favourite ep of S3. I liked the general structure of the ep - all the scenes flowed well. It pretty much had everything I really love about the show – good character bonding, lots of cool SFX and the boys looked sexy as hell in their uniforms and the lighting was kind.
Loved the performance evaluations - Rodney trying to complain and wheedle his way out of it and John just giving everyone “Excellent/Above Average, *giggles*, and having a sassy answer about “telling lies” to justify himself. Very little boy, smarty-pants to the “teacher”! Very cute!
Why was I surprised to hear “Yes, Chuck?” Is that the first time his name’s been said on screen? I read an interview mentioning his name, I’m sure, but yeah ... this must be a canon moment.
Huh … I really enjoyed not liking that Col. Ellis guy – and I suppose that was the point! He played his part well, but where was Caldwell? I hope he hasn’t been dropped too. But where does Ellis get off just beaming scientists against their will? "Be still, my indignant heart!".
Hee! Loved Radek suggesting “sabotaging” the weapons. What a great subversive he is and that's a very Czech (albeit unreliant) trait! Loved that whole discussion, with Rodney almost willing but thinking better of it. He struck a lovely low register in that scene.
Yay, Rodney for “Yeah, I don’t think that’s your call.” And “Aye, aye, Captain.” So LOYAL!
Loved Teyla for “How come you get to be Mr Fantastic?” and John escapes to his one team/true member with a comic book super-hero passion. *g*
Ronon didn’t annoy the hell out of me, as he has in recent episodes with his short fuse and snippy, childish impatience. His frustration at inactivity came across as much more believable in this situation, ‘cus he didn’t take it out on anyone.
Oh god, John you’re so gay with the “Why don’t you guys just make out and get it over with?” Of course he can afford such generosity since he then does the whole “on the same wave-length unspoken conversation” with his boyfriend Rodney, and Radek’s left in the dust!
John doesn’t want to be The Man. ”Who would I have to rage against?” Nice to get the matched bookend to the performance evaluations.
I liked the way they played the tete a tete with Ellis verbally seducing Sheppard (military types) on the one hand, Elizabeth and Teyla (the diplomats) on the other and both of them dropping their mutually exclusive bonding sessions to come running ... to hear out the pivotal scientists who are going to save their arses!
Hey, so the planet has a name at long last! John calls it ‘Lantea when he gets the idea for the moon rocks. Cool!
Yeuch! at Ellis’ “I do know General O’Neill is awfully fond of you.” How patronizing.
I really liked John in this ep. Not only for the cool “flying Atlantis via mind meld in the chair” stuff but also because he hit the right note/tone with Rodney in various places … You too. Huge improvement on S1’s parting.
Atlantis was so pretty going down and up, and then out into hyperspace – all very grandly heroic music, intercut with shots of John in the Chair. Still, I can’t help thinking it would have had much more impact if they’d resisted showing the Replicator's Atlantis flying in Progeny. They lost a lot of dramatic effect by playing their hand too early. So if this was part of the surprises that were supposed to blow my socks off for end of S3, well, *looksdownatsocks* “Nup, still there”, I have to say.
So … Jewel Staite. I haven’t seen her before, except wraithified. Hmm, she’s not as frail or young as I’ve read her described. She seems quite a mature young woman. I think it was quite clever of TPTB to bring her up from the rank and file already on Atlantis and to have her very resistant to, and lacking in confidence in the job. It cuts down on the sense of antipathy some might feel at her replacing Carson. It’s early days but I doubt I’ll change my mind on wishing Carson was still with the team. ETA (9/2): The more I think about her introductory scene, the more I'm convinced that her "not wanting the job" was a politically motivated scripting decision to reduce fan backlash against her. Jewel even stated in an interview, "Please don't hate me." and it just demonstrates a PTB awareness of Carson's huge popularity with the fans, so yeah it just doesn't make sense to me as to why they dropped him, if they have to go to such lengths ... *colour me perplexed*
Also it’s pretty clear they’ve laid the foundations for Elizabeth being turfed. I kind of doubt she would really resign (given her state of depression in The Return) – I mean John was right when he said “You’ve peaked.”, so the injuries are probably going to work in with what she said about being pushed aside anytime there’s a crisis for Earth. None of this really surprises me though because of the casting news, so I’m a bit baffled about DH’s assurances of shock/surprise. I guess he must just mean Atlantis taking wing and getting LOST in Space! “Danger! Danger! John Sheppard!” So does that make Jewel the older sister? Hee!
Despite being vaguely disappointed with how “not shocking” the events were it’s my favourite finale of the three seasons. Lots of lovely, slashy sub-text moments with my favourite boys and loyalty towards everyone on Atlantis.
There's a .zip file of about 75 caps (mostly of John, Rodney and the SFX) here
and a few caps
First Strike was up there with Echoes for the m/m character moments and interactions, Echoes being my second favourite ep of S3. I liked the general structure of the ep - all the scenes flowed well. It pretty much had everything I really love about the show – good character bonding, lots of cool SFX and the boys looked sexy as hell in their uniforms and the lighting was kind.
Loved the performance evaluations - Rodney trying to complain and wheedle his way out of it and John just giving everyone “Excellent/Above Average, *giggles*, and having a sassy answer about “telling lies” to justify himself. Very little boy, smarty-pants to the “teacher”! Very cute!
Why was I surprised to hear “Yes, Chuck?” Is that the first time his name’s been said on screen? I read an interview mentioning his name, I’m sure, but yeah ... this must be a canon moment.
Huh … I really enjoyed not liking that Col. Ellis guy – and I suppose that was the point! He played his part well, but where was Caldwell? I hope he hasn’t been dropped too. But where does Ellis get off just beaming scientists against their will? "Be still, my indignant heart!".
Hee! Loved Radek suggesting “sabotaging” the weapons. What a great subversive he is and that's a very Czech (albeit unreliant) trait! Loved that whole discussion, with Rodney almost willing but thinking better of it. He struck a lovely low register in that scene.
Yay, Rodney for “Yeah, I don’t think that’s your call.” And “Aye, aye, Captain.” So LOYAL!
Loved Teyla for “How come you get to be Mr Fantastic?” and John escapes to his one team/true member with a comic book super-hero passion. *g*
Ronon didn’t annoy the hell out of me, as he has in recent episodes with his short fuse and snippy, childish impatience. His frustration at inactivity came across as much more believable in this situation, ‘cus he didn’t take it out on anyone.
Oh god, John you’re so gay with the “Why don’t you guys just make out and get it over with?” Of course he can afford such generosity since he then does the whole “on the same wave-length unspoken conversation” with his boyfriend Rodney, and Radek’s left in the dust!
John doesn’t want to be The Man. ”Who would I have to rage against?” Nice to get the matched bookend to the performance evaluations.
I liked the way they played the tete a tete with Ellis verbally seducing Sheppard (military types) on the one hand, Elizabeth and Teyla (the diplomats) on the other and both of them dropping their mutually exclusive bonding sessions to come running ... to hear out the pivotal scientists who are going to save their arses!
Hey, so the planet has a name at long last! John calls it ‘Lantea when he gets the idea for the moon rocks. Cool!
Yeuch! at Ellis’ “I do know General O’Neill is awfully fond of you.” How patronizing.
I really liked John in this ep. Not only for the cool “flying Atlantis via mind meld in the chair” stuff but also because he hit the right note/tone with Rodney in various places … You too. Huge improvement on S1’s parting.
Atlantis was so pretty going down and up, and then out into hyperspace – all very grandly heroic music, intercut with shots of John in the Chair. Still, I can’t help thinking it would have had much more impact if they’d resisted showing the Replicator's Atlantis flying in Progeny. They lost a lot of dramatic effect by playing their hand too early. So if this was part of the surprises that were supposed to blow my socks off for end of S3, well, *looksdownatsocks* “Nup, still there”, I have to say.
So … Jewel Staite. I haven’t seen her before, except wraithified. Hmm, she’s not as frail or young as I’ve read her described. She seems quite a mature young woman. I think it was quite clever of TPTB to bring her up from the rank and file already on Atlantis and to have her very resistant to, and lacking in confidence in the job. It cuts down on the sense of antipathy some might feel at her replacing Carson. It’s early days but I doubt I’ll change my mind on wishing Carson was still with the team. ETA (9/2): The more I think about her introductory scene, the more I'm convinced that her "not wanting the job" was a politically motivated scripting decision to reduce fan backlash against her. Jewel even stated in an interview, "Please don't hate me." and it just demonstrates a PTB awareness of Carson's huge popularity with the fans, so yeah it just doesn't make sense to me as to why they dropped him, if they have to go to such lengths ... *colour me perplexed*
Also it’s pretty clear they’ve laid the foundations for Elizabeth being turfed. I kind of doubt she would really resign (given her state of depression in The Return) – I mean John was right when he said “You’ve peaked.”, so the injuries are probably going to work in with what she said about being pushed aside anytime there’s a crisis for Earth. None of this really surprises me though because of the casting news, so I’m a bit baffled about DH’s assurances of shock/surprise. I guess he must just mean Atlantis taking wing and getting LOST in Space! “Danger! Danger! John Sheppard!” So does that make Jewel the older sister? Hee!
Despite being vaguely disappointed with how “not shocking” the events were it’s my favourite finale of the three seasons. Lots of lovely, slashy sub-text moments with my favourite boys and loyalty towards everyone on Atlantis.
There's a .zip file of about 75 caps (mostly of John, Rodney and the SFX) here
and a few caps
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2007-02-07 04:03 pm (UTC)I'm totally, absolutely in love with this episode. One of my all time favourite.
Rodney was brilliant. SO LOYAL, indeed.
Do you know who'll be in charge till Lizzie can leave the infirmary? Teh Boys!!*weehee*
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Date: 2007-02-08 12:51 am (UTC)Hee! Yep those boys are gonna be in charge for the meanwhile. Can't wait to see what mischief they get up too. I want them to do lots of up close and personal evaluation of each other (heh! not the type that Lizzie had in mind). *smirk*
Argh, it's ages til S4 comes.
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Date: 2007-02-07 04:26 pm (UTC)Anyway, to answer your Chuck question:
This wasn't in the script, Torri just greeted him with this name when they were shooting. One of the Torri-girls on my Flist assumed that this is her way of saying "hi" to the fans *g*
And nice caps! I'm looking forward to watch this ep.
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Date: 2007-02-08 01:06 am (UTC)So Lizzie slipped it past them all. Hee! She gets to name "things" in Atlantis!
Thanks re the caps! You're gonna love the ep when you get to see it. How long til you do?
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Date: 2007-02-08 01:38 pm (UTC)Well... I can wait *gg*
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Date: 2007-02-08 01:53 pm (UTC)no subject
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Date: 2007-02-08 03:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-02-08 04:18 pm (UTC)You could buy S2 somewhere else! Over here in Germany it's already out on DVDs - there are 5 with 4 eps each, and I think there's also a box with the whole season for sale. You can watch all episodes in English as well, so if you have a good player, that shouldn't be a problem. :)
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Date: 2007-02-08 04:29 pm (UTC)Sadly, I have to wait for the American dvds because my dvd player is about 5 years old and won't play anything PAL. Unless Germany has NTSC?
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Date: 2007-02-09 05:36 pm (UTC)But I remember news about the S2 DVD box - McKay was standing behind Ronon & Teyla on the cover, what squicked some people in the fandom. I'll keep my fingers crossed that it'll be for sale soon :)
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Date: 2007-02-09 11:41 pm (UTC)Yeah I think I saw that cover and wondered myself about Rodney being at the back. Huh, *shakeshead* ... weird, since he's the huge drawcard of the show.
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Date: 2007-02-10 09:45 am (UTC)But the covers of the SGA DVDs are almost always weird. The first DVD of S2 had John on the front with a very weird haircut - it was suddenly very flat and the German fangirls complained about the lack of teh!hair *gg*
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Date: 2007-02-08 05:07 pm (UTC)I loved the performance evals scene (the PTB have so been reading the fanfic!)
According to Chuck they were filming the scene and Tori just called him Chuck as he walked in - he kept going with the scene and as soon as it was done they yelled cut and printed it and away it went - he was pretty sure it was accidental but they didn't fix it or edit it so who knows.
I reckon the fact that they sent Col. Ellis rather than Caldwell means he probably won't survive the ark. He's a bit of a git but he's a good character to dislike. And I loved(!) Rodney's 'yeah, I don't think that's your call' contempt of Ellis and his 'Aye aye, Captain' to Elizabeth. God I love that man.
I adored that Fantastic Four scene and you just know that John thinks Rodney is the Human Torch because he thinks his boyfriend is totally hot!
Lots of FX and cool real!sci-fi moments in this ep with the submerging the city, raiding the city, flying the city - very cool.
I just loved it all, all the slashy McShep moments and the cool story line but most of all I really, really loved Rodney's new shirt.
It matches John's black one and they're so hot and cute and couple-y!
Guh!
Sorry for the long rambling reply but it was a great ep!
.xx.
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Date: 2007-02-09 01:01 am (UTC)And you are so right with Rodney - he really shone in this ep for his loyalty and essential goodness.
I'll be very interested to see if we see more of Ellis. It was a bit up in the air (to me) whether he was hanging around to see them safely to M12 578 (or whatever it was), or whether, when he said "I'll be on my way", he was heading back to Earth. It was all very ambiguous, but I suspect you may be right with him not surviving the arc. It's just my logical brain is screaming they might have asked him to hang around in case anything went wrong with flying the city (which is what I'd do chicken that I am!). On the other hand no-one really wanted him there in the first place so ... that's probably not all that likely a scenario *g*
*nods* Rodney's shirt was hot! To me it had the feel of a worker's shirt - a hot mechanic's shirt *g* I love that side of Rodney - that's he's really practical and can get down and dirty with maintaining HIS city and that he's not just a lab or white collar scientist.
Weren't the SFX/CG fantastic? So full of pretty! Atlantis itself looked like a city of crystals in those last "lost" scenes.
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Date: 2007-02-10 12:23 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-02-10 12:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-02-10 12:50 pm (UTC)no subject
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Date: 2007-02-10 12:20 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-02-10 12:39 pm (UTC)To be honest, I'm more wary of the whole thing DH was doing with promoting ADB with the efforts of fans and I've taken a mental step back from him and from the show due to that - not that I ever did do anything towards promoting it. Nor have I ever commented on his site, so I'm glad about that.
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Date: 2007-02-10 12:55 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-02-10 01:07 pm (UTC)Also I have to correct my earlier statement above. I did request a screening and I viewed the clips on YouTube, so I did contribute to the promotion in that way, but it was no skin off my nose, of course. I wanted to see the clips and the film.
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Date: 2007-02-10 01:29 pm (UTC)What DH did with the marketing was innovative - but I had this feeling, like you, of it being a double edged sword all along. There's a fine line between reaching your fanbase and using your fanbase and while I'm not sure he crossed it, he did leave himself dangerously open to the fans.
I felt there was some naivety to his promotion of his own life in connection with ADB and I'm still not entirely convinced that won't backfire spectacularly on him. I really hope not, but it's always made me very uneasy. Interacting with people via blogs makes people think they know you - all the people commenting have that sense of him interacting with them *personally* and while I'm sure the majority of fans are sane and sensible, that's not by any means the case with all. He's met them - he should know!
I know just from my own experiences of the net that there can be extremes of weirdness that I'd want to protect myself from. I can't imagine being as open about myself in my blog as DH has been in his. It's refreshing, and there's definitely an appeal to it, but ultimately it makes me uncomfortable.
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Date: 2007-02-10 02:06 pm (UTC)The "squirrels" term came about because of all the chittering hetupness over "rules" and discussion of fanfic on his forum, but he continued to use it on his site to address everyone, and THAT made me uncomfortable. I found it a little condescending in truth to continue with using it although it was well deserved in the first place *g*. What really did it for me though was when the article describing his methods cited that fan term/label in the article. Just, "Oh no ...". It was too much and smacked of using fans for commercial gain. The use of the term probably wasn't directly quoting DH but came straight from viewing his site. Nevertheless, having it repeated in this new text gave it a meaning beyond it's original intent and that made me feel even more uncomfortable with the whole promotion process, regardless of DH's good motivations. I just feel it got away from him a bit, and you're right there could still be a backlash, although I hope not.
Absolutely, most fans are sensible, but it only takes one of two weirdos to screw up an otherwise good thing. I suspect it's his personal experience of that that made him look very tense and wary at the Con! but who knows? I'm just projecting that. *g*
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Date: 2007-02-10 02:24 pm (UTC)For me, I had this sense of unease the minute I read his first blog entry. On the one hand I found it very exciting - I'd never known an actor communicate so directly and openly before. But right from the beginning it also made me uncomfortable in ways I found hard to articulate -until you mentioned it and I realised it wasn't just me!
Part of it is that he's clearly so "online". I don't like the idea of him, for example, accessing fanfic and manipped pics - and yet he's said he's fine with both on his forum. I suppose for me, my fanfic life is so completely divorced from the actors that I don't really want them involved in it in any way. There's a willing suspension of disbelief involved in slash fanfic - we all know it's not canon and never will be and we all know the characters wouldn't actually DO or SAY these things, and I don't want an actor, even if he's cool with the gay stuff, laughing at it or destroying that little bubble of disbelief. I felt a bit like that with the wanky hoo-hah about my work to be honest. The ridicule can be applied to all slash, and once the magic has gone, it's just...gone. It just seems a rather silly pastime. Like the way my brother views it!
And while I'm sure he'd just laugh at some of our slash fanfic, that's the point. I don't want it laughed at even though I know it can be risible. But when I laugh at it it's because I love it and I can laugh at myself, and when an outsider, like my brother, laughs at it, it just makes it look stupid. I don't want DH doing that, if it makes any sense. Also, I'm not entirely sure on his stance on homosexuality, after that little quote about Century Hotel that we both noticed. Not that he's by any means a homophobe, but just that straight men have a myriad of different reactions to homosexuality and a seemingly overwhelming desire to let the world know they're not gay *g*.
I'm not sure I'm making any sense but I'm so glad we're having this discussion!
BTW, I've ranted on my LJ about First Strike - might be best not to read it *g*. But I feel better for getting some of my disgruntlement off my chest. I'm actually a bit shocked by how down the show has made me of late - the "Sunday" effect has really lasted for me and altered the way I see the show irrevocably.
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Date: 2007-02-10 03:18 pm (UTC)Gosh, I sound horrible (I DO still really LIKE him, but he IS politic! I just get that sense that he's playing the game, but there are a few cracks in the facade.
I think it was the illusion of accessibility that made his blog initially exciting to read, and his utterly refreshing style but from the first I was sceptical of that supposed accessibility.
And I totally agree with you about the slash bubble being burst. It's a fantasy - and ... Exactly! We know there's a suspension of disbelief, but people need their fantasies - and there's nothing wrong in that - and it's miserable to have those ruthlessly puntured or dismissed, unless they are seriously interfering with your ability to live a fulfilled real life, of course (which they're not). It's very complicated and I'm not sure I can articulate it as well as you have (which is why I've delayed replying to your last email *g* - I'm still trying to thunk up something that's not simply sympathetic, but original too.) LOL! Also I'm not a writer but if I were, I wouldn't want my fic discussed on his forums either, but I was kind of silently cheering Icarus on with that one simply because I didn't like the attitude of the fans deciding what was acceptable and what was not on DH's site.
Part of the thing with DH and "his squirrels" was also that he was only addressing those who had been talking on site. He didn't remember in the use of that term that there was in fact a wider, more silent component of the audience. As one who hadn't chittered, I didn't like coming under that umbrella term. Call it pride ... *shrugs*
Re homosexuality - Oh yes, you make sense! I recently mentioned my slash interest to a male colleague and because I know he's a bit of a skirt-chaser I pressed him on his secret life I knew he HAD to have, and he admitted to having written some het fanfic himself! We talked about slash and he's convinced the male "determination" *g* to demonstrate total hetness is in the genes. I'm not so sure myself on it being absolutely genes but it's probably at least part of the equation. And the thing is .. it's not ALL men, but the ones who do want to demonstrate that, go to such embarrassing (and disappointing) lengths! Hee! I'm really curious about this particular question.
Amen to having this discussion! It's been burbling away inside me for quite a while!
Off to read your post! I checked it earlier when I got your first reply but you hadn't posted then. And yeah it's good to get it off your chest! I know there's not much that can be done to get it back when the love has burned down ... once you've turned that corner, it's lost ... so it's okay, I know where you're at. I think we've all been through it at one/many time(s) or another.
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Date: 2007-02-10 03:40 pm (UTC)I don't blame you for the "fat cat" image. I doubt he'll make much, if anything, off his movie, and he's very committed to trying to pay others who helped on the movie for their time. But I think of him as 2 people - and in a sense I can identify with that as I've occupied that space myself. But he might genuinely want to connect with his fans, for the ego boost and the fun of it, while at the same time, his business brain also wants to exploit his current popularity. I DO like him, and I think he means well, but he's definitely 2 people. The man in that recent interview is a much lighter version of the man I saw at the con. He's got an edge - it was one of the first things I noticed about him - and he keeps it hidden for the "fun stuff" and to do all the publicity stuff. In fact that interview was revealing in all kinds of ways - for the fact it was put online too soon, and showed the "construct" of talking about "Sunday" before it aired but only for publication after it aired, and how DH was very savvy with toeing the party line. A real pro.
I think the events of the past few months have brought up all kinds of things for me. Not least that sense that sharing your fantasies in the slash community is always a risky business - knowing that, you'd think people would be kind, but actually they're as judgemental as the world in general. Women's fantasies remain a problem, even among other women and a supposedly safe environment. I feel like my fantasies are a source of embarrassment in a sense - like shining that light upon slash in general from a world that thinks it's ridiculous. It narrows your focus right down and results in self censorship. It's not the first time that's happened to me, and it took me years to write again after the first time - which was a totally different set of circumstances and every bit as mortifying. I must tell you THAT story some day!
As for men and heterosexuality - maybe it's only so important in our society where there is still a stigma attached to homosexuality. And maybe more men are attracted to other men than like to admit it and that makes them overstate their heterosexuality. I don't know! But why do they all get so het up about it?!
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Date: 2007-02-11 03:12 am (UTC)Yeah *nods* at the complicated mix of things. That's what it is for me too. Just a gradual accrual of knowledge about things that point to the edgier side you noted about the Con David. I think I've managed to keep that compartmentalized and away from my enjoyment of the show, mostly though.
Re the "fatcat" thing- it wasn't actually the film itself that I thought he'd get rich from and yeah I know he's committed to paying his people if he can make any money. It was a much more general and long term image - a sense of him trading on his popularity in SGA to rocket boost his personal endeavours generally and while ADB is just one project, I was thinking of his utilization of the SGA fan base as pretty much in the same terms as you use exploiting his current popularity. And I wasn't entirely comfortable with it, because you can't do that and always trust that people won't demand more than you're willing to give in return.
Yeah I see that 2 people thing. I do it everyday in my life here. The entertaining, witty and energetic teacher (teaching in Japan is really very much like acting *g*), and there are times when I come home and I won't answer the door or the phone and am quite happy not speaking to anyone for a couple of days. I'm a very different person at home. In fact my boss/colleague and I were discussing that very thing a few weeks ago. But it's different for me because there are mostly only the two spaces. For DH there's the job/acting, then there's the promotion side of things - the public David, so it must be very stressful to get all those sides meshing seamlessly.
I suppose I wonder about to what degree he is keeping that darker edgier/sarcastic side leashed. As a British/Canadian he would have to, to get places. As he's dealing with U.S culture with it's emphasis on spin and positivity, I imagine that there are sides to him that he might have to tamp down in public. So yeah I suspect he has very private ideas about McGillion's demise and I wholeheartedly agree about him toeing the party line and that he's a pro at it. That was a very perceptive observation, about the "talking about Sunday construct" you made. There were some other things in that interview that I didn't get ... what did you make of him slashing his throat in the later part. There was some talk about PMcG at that point - What was he asked that made him do that and not want to speak about? Did you catch it? He then went on to "pound on" PMcG, so I thought it must have been Paul related - at least that was my impression.
I think I just feel overexposed to the extras of SGA fandom information in a way. I live it here putting that positive spin on things in my own working life and I guess I'm a little disappointed to see how the insidious creep of American positivity tends to manipulate the behaviour of everyone who wants to be even moderately successful these days. *sigh* I blame my "convict, agin' the govt." roots *g* That's not to say I am a really negative person. I'm actually very sociable and love being with people, but there's a darker more critical side to me too. It's a balance, as in anything, but everyone has a different idea of what that balance should be when it comes to social behaviour.
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Date: 2007-02-11 09:32 am (UTC)I've often toned down my darker, more critical side because I know people find it challenging. I don't mean anything by it - I think I'm essentially good hearted for example, whereas other people hide a mean spirit behind a lighter exterior.
And yes re the exploiting his current popularity thing. I know it must be tempting right now, but I'm still not sure it won't backfire quite a bit on him. We'll have to see! It seems to me that the celeb culture is full of people who sell their souls for publicity and then find they can't buy them back again - it's a bit like letting a genie out of a bottle - and I think Princess Diana was possibly the first person to demonstrate how potentially lethal it is - on a very grand scale. It maybe that this won't be the same as the celeb stuff as it's utilising a quite different method/fanbase - we'll have to see!
no subject
Date: 2007-02-11 12:20 pm (UTC)Yeah it's pretty normal for people to have different personas, and I'm not surprised to hear of DH's now I think about it. The gap between the personas is intriguing, as you say.
It must also be pretty challenging for him in the "Big Time". For such a naturally locquacious and spontaneous speaker, I imagine there's a weight of responsibility to navigate the different investments and perspectives people present - whether studio, fan audience or whoever. Clearly he's obligated in different degrees as well depending on the capacity he's filling in any given event. So perhaps that's part of the reason for his edgier side at the con.
It would be interesting to understand what his own sense of obligations are and how he balances promoting sga with his own personal agendas/interests and how they give rise to the manifestation of that persona at the con, for example.
Yes and Japan has toned that darker side of me down hugely. I'm still cynical underneath it all though. You don't actually change the template, but just edit it for viewing! I'm more careful to only show that side to like-minded people, who actually appreciate it *g* so I know exactly where DH is coming from in that respect. I wondered whether because he was on British soil, he felt he was more relaxed to show that darker side of himself to that audience, although you say he WASN'T relaxed, so that's a conundrum!
I mean I always feel I can show my darker more cynical/sarcastic/critical side to English and Australian co-workers, (and they to me) but it always has to be mostly superficial and positive with my American colleagues. There's a real divide here in that respect and my Aus. and English colleagues feel exactly the same about it as I do.
Yes, I hope things go well for him. It's funny you should metion celeb's selling their souls. Because that was the implicit tenor of one of JF's comment about David's ADB "promotion via fans" method. I got the sense that JF thought he was perhaps doing that in getting so close to the fans! It was nothing you could pin down and I don't want to assign authorial intent - just that in that lazy thoughtful drawl he said something that prompted me to sit up and take notice. JF lives in L.A. and he's probably seen it all!
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Date: 2007-02-11 01:58 pm (UTC)I don't think DH was relaxed in his fannish interaction. He was more comfortable when he had Jane and Kate with him facing the questions but on his own he was very guarded. I think part of that was expectation of what he'd be asked and having to face the brunt of any fan madness alone - which again is slightly at odds with the man from the blog/forum isn't it?! But he really was a very different character to the one in that interview. Even with Kate and Jane there he was still harder edged than he was in that interview.
I think I like the darker David much more - I bet *he* has got some interesting stories to tell *g*.
Your interpretation of who we are in terms of what culture we're in was interesting. I totally agree re the upbeat "US" thing. I remember saying some typically self-deprecating English thing once and some Americans rushing up and trying to bolster my self esteem and telling me off almost for the comment - I was aware of a real cultural misunderstanding. I suspect a lot of the Americans take DH's self-deprecation as an endearing lack of ego, which it actually really isn't *g*. I think his ego is pretty healthy *ggg*.
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Date: 2007-02-11 03:37 pm (UTC)I really liked your analysis of the David at the con re his levels of comfort and the conditions pertaining in each context. I'm pretty much nodding away here at what you said. Although I think you can get distance with blog. I get the sense that he's not nearly as threatened by what goes on in his blog than he is face to face. There isn't that immediate demand on him that's present with face to face conversation He doesn't need to respond to anything people say there, and he doesn't that I've noticed, except in an occasional summing up kind of way with new posts.
Yes, DH's ego is quite healthy! No argument here! Hee! I would like to know more of that darker side too. Much more interesting, I think.
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Date: 2007-02-11 10:58 am (UTC)Firstly, it's the fact that it's clearly designed to be shown in segments. They even talk about it as a construct so seeing it shown unedited in its almost-entirety (some bits have obviously been cut) is unsettling to the viewer. For example the Xmas message seems designed to be shown on its own and therefore comes over very strangely as part of the interview.
The "slashing throat" thing seemed to have two meanings to me. One was that he was being asked about his cast members and didn't mention Paul. So the lady offscreen asked him to say something about Paul. He was confused - his throat cutting gesture seemed to imply that as Carson was dead he wasn't sure he was supposed to be talking about Paul, but as some of the interview was designed to air before "Sunday" there was a sense of "keeping up appearances". The second meaning was that Paul wasn't in the show any more - the slashing throat was interchangeable for Paul/Carson. That was one of the elements that made uncomfortable viewing - the sense of seeing behind the artifice to the "presentation" element of the interview.
I will say there was a big difference between this DH and the one I saw in RL. He stumbled over his words much more here - as if he was continually reaching for the "right" thing to say. He babbled far more than he does in RL. In fact, he was almost a completely different person. He kept the tone quite light in a way that felt very like performance. In addition, his body language was odd. When asked about Sunday he covers his hand with his mouth for a moment and thinks (as Private David) of the right response, and then he switches back onto "Public David" mode. He appears relaxed throughout the interview - but notice his right hand and arm - the arm is bent and the hand is flat in a gesture of a person ready to rise and leave at any minute. That implies to me that he was nowhere near as relaxed as he appeared.
Most of what he said was meaningless banter - the usual "I love my co-stars and my job" stuff that they all trot out. But when he talked about the farewell to Carson scene and Paul as a friend, I did get a glimmer of Private David.
With his family (Kate) he's quite sarcastic - the teasing is quite edgy - and I suspect that's much closer to his RL persona than the person in this interview. I'm intrigued by the large gap in public and private face.
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Date: 2007-02-11 11:33 am (UTC)Actually I found that part unsettling but overall the interview made me feel edgy and I think you've nailed it on the head with the explanation of his reaching for something to say. Both times I watched it I mentally remarked on his "uh, uh, uh"s (we call them "fillers"/"hesitation phenomena") ~ well whatever they are, they gave a really jerky feel to parts as if he was mentally editing as he was speaking which clued me in on his own sense of unease, and the jerkiness also just really irritated me. I do remember his body language too. You're right on that.
So I got the sense that he was working very hard to keep it light and that disparity between tone and his real state made me feel like I was being fed a line and I'm not dumb enough to not recognise that. Also the meaningless banter? Yes! It's all been trotted out before and you hear the same stuff over and over again from all of them and that too contributes to my sense of unease (for them), as if they are hard pressed, mined out of stuff of interest that's shareable.
I've been meaning to reply to your other comments, but just quickly here ... I think I'd prefer the more serious David. Simply because the ancedotes/info are just accumulating as "lines" for me. I feel like his promotional role in SGA is coming across sometimes as if he's under strain and it makes me feel horrible to be witnessing it.
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Date: 2007-02-11 02:04 pm (UTC)And look also at his discomfort about recording an xmas message - that was the "real" David - as, incidentally, was the message itself. I think he felt they'd crossed a line asking him to do that, especially "in character" as he was in character as public!David in that interview. Hence the very small element of subversion we saw.
I so agree re the strain of the promotional role. It's interesting most of all when the cracks show...*g*
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Date: 2007-02-11 03:20 pm (UTC)I was quite stunned with the intensity and the prolongedness of the performance. It was remarkable for how sustained it was. I imagine, since our email discussion that he must have done some intensive prep for it - perhaps even been schooled on certain parts????
And yes he was reluctant to do the Rodney McKay Xmas greeting. Actually I thought he was showing more than just a small element of subversion. He was very resistant and the final response was very delayed, as if he was tossing up on the consequences of refusing outright. I thought he was going to berk at it! But they also really went into crazy fan territory with that idiotic "question" "Tell us something about DH that you wouldn't want the fans to know" or somesuch. Duh!
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Date: 2007-02-11 04:10 pm (UTC)And yes re the xmas thing - he SO wanted to refuse. I think there was a moment of rebellion and then he gave in. Interesting how that plays out in the wider context of an interview where his body language is at such odds with what he's saying.
And yes re that stupid question. He was trying to make light of it but you could see the shutters going down.
Also there were two people there - one doing the interview and one off behind him - and the one off behind him seemed to be his SG "minder" - she was the one who made him include PM in his answer. It all seems rather creepy doesn't it?!
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Date: 2007-02-11 03:13 am (UTC)I tend to think it's only a few really nasty people in fandom who are not kind, comparatively speaking. And I think it's those same people who are the ones to feel embarrassed. I think they are going about it the wrong way. They want to merge the real and fantasy but honestly I think they are better separated. That's why all the wanky hoo ha goes on, trying to mainstream slash in their own minds. There's some kind of essential discomfort there with their own fantasies and perhaps yours takes them places they are uncomfortable with and in direct opposition to their mainstreaming it. I don't know if that makes sense! Yes, do tell me THAT story when you feel like it. I'd be very interested.
Oh yeah and I DO think it's mostly culture and stigma. Sometimes I wonder if the books writing about the gene explanation are compromised by the very fact that the writers are men OF those cultures that have the stigma. LOL! Still I tend to distrust dichotomies and absolutely do not believe in universals so I'll hedge my bets on that one. There's rarely a simple answer to any question of import.
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Date: 2007-02-11 09:21 am (UTC)I'll tell you the other story privately some time!
Maybe one day we'll find out re the culture/stigma thing! I suppose I tend to get antsy if someone thinks I'm something I'm not, just because it's irritating. For men it seems to go a little deeper though...*g*.
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Date: 2007-02-11 12:55 pm (UTC)I once used LJ slash related type language in a conversation with a friend and then realised my interlocutor had no idea what I meant. It was OK because the friend has similar quirky *g* interests. But it can bleed over if you're not vigilant *g* and surprise people and I don't want any fall out from developing a mindset that it's mainstream enough to think it's OK to talk about it to all and sundry.
I definitely take your points about intent. People can get too close and they start to lose the broader picture. The world seems to become quite narrow for them and everything is shaped in their heads to fit their perspective. It's a very weird twisting of things and I'm more comfortable with it separated.
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Date: 2007-02-11 02:01 pm (UTC)Yes re losing the broader picture. When you distill your entire life down to one TV show and one slash pairing within it, then I think it can be very easy to lose perspective. That's another thing I took from the wanky hoo-hah. These people really were overly obsessed to the point of a kind of paranoia. Scary!
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Date: 2007-02-11 03:06 pm (UTC)And re losing perspective I fell into that over the "lemon incident" I felt really incensed at W&C for that and bashed them a bit in the review I posted. I think poor Blue-spirit fled for the hills when she read it and I felt awful. I really got myself infected from reading too many rash young fan girls' reviews and slipped into their personal attack style. I really regretted that and went back and shamelessly edited it out without even marking the edit, I was so appalled at myself.
Since that incident, I've gotten some distance. I'm not going to get so involved in a show that I feel such a sense of disappointment and lash out like that, so perhaps that's why I haven't reacted so badly to the show in general with Carson's loss. Although I do hold similar concerns to you re the military role in S4. Just, NOOOOO ...!
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Date: 2007-02-11 04:08 pm (UTC)And is it possible to get some distance and still be involved? Because I kind of feel that I can either be into the show and flailing or step back and not care - is it possible to mix the two?
I was surprised by the vehemence of my own reaction to First Strike. Because I didn't have that reaction to Sunday. Or to the two non-descript eps that followed. And then suddenly with FS it was almost visceral. I was ANGRY all of a sudden - and really really pissed off. I think a few things came to a head for me. Not least that that kind of plot really irritates me. And maybe I'd been cutting the show a lot of slack for a while because it's *my* show and I want to be in the fun, happy place with it - and I didn't realise that Sunday had altered my perception of the show. The minute it disappointed me again I responded quite savagely. I think that's one reason why that John/Rodney little boy charm had the opposite reaction to usual. I found myself despising it rather than being charmed by it.
And my reaction made me reconsider where I was at with the show. I've been stumbling along in the fandom for quite some time but this just made me want to be done with it. I didn't want to feel like THIS over a TV show when I've been so down in my Real Life of late.
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Date: 2007-02-10 02:30 pm (UTC)I've noticed there's also an "interview" DH, where he's very upbeat and funny, and his blog, where he's similar, and then a darker, more introspective DH, who is a good deal more intelligent and switched on, and a good deal more wary too, and that vein of sarcasm is a mile wide in that more private DH. He can be pretty scathing in a very witty way - I'd be very interested in his private views on fans, and on the Paul McGillion/Sunday thing. I think this is a man who toes the party line and puts on a good performance where it suits him, but behind that...there's a lot of other stuff going on.